make me a sandwich One Day Is All It Took To Get Asked To Make a Sandwich

 
As you know, yesterday I owned the shit out of Dungeons of Dredmor. The stats on Steam say only 1% of players have beaten the game on Going Rogue w/Permadeath, and 0.6% have beaten it on any difficulty with a random build. Even though there are no stats for the overlap, I may be the only person in the world who has beaten the game on BOTH (GR/PD + random).
 

Even still, apparently, to this helpless starving infant on the Gaslamp Games forum my only role is making kitchen food for baby boys who still can’t do it themselves.
 
 

kitchen 300x104 One Day Is All It Took To Get Asked To Make a Sandwich

 

Click the image to make it bigger so you can read it.

 
For some perspective on this, I’ve been on the Gaslamp forums for LITERALLY one day. I’ve never interacted with this individual before, and his typing-vomit directed at me was completely unprovoked. In case you don’t believe me, and you still think maybe I did something to warrant this interaction, I’ll tell you what happened. It’s a very short story, actually.
 
When I posted in the “Introductions” thread, I said “Hello! I’m a 30-year-old woman, I play PC master-race games, console games, and board games. I enjoy strategy, roguelikes, RPGs, and adventure games (like Myst). I have a goal of defeating as many roguelikes as possible.” I also made a separate post (in which this person did not participate) detailing my conquest. I made the account to talk shop with some of the biggest fans of Dungeons of Dredmor, and I thought utterly DESTROYING the game would earn me being at LEAST treated as a person. Man, I sure know now. If I’m “existing while female” there’s no hope for that. I better quit being really good at roguelikes and just devote myself to making sandwiches for any boy who asks.
 

Not even remotely safe for work.

 
Before this, I would have thought that indie gaming fans were above this kind of behavior. That roguelike gamers would be better than this. I bet there are people right now who still don’t know othering fem gamers isn’t something that happens only on high-sass games on XboxLive. Nope. Apparently it happens to ladies no matter what the game is, or how good at it she is. “Hi, you’re a woman? Let me invalidate you, as is my right and duty.”
 
The grossest.
 
And if you didn’t know yet, sometimes I’m a dick to people. If you want to see how I replied to this idiot and use it as inspiration here is my reply to his post:
 

myreply 300x170 One Day Is All It Took To Get Asked To Make a Sandwich

 

I thought I was pretty clever.

 

pixel One Day Is All It Took To Get Asked To Make a Sandwich

36 Responses to “One Day Is All It Took To Get Asked To Make a Sandwich”

  1. Porter Says:

    Haha, you owned his face. My general thought, is that most people in the world suck, you’ll have to cherry pick the goods ones out of any community.

    [Reply]

    Tiffany Martin Reply:

    Preferably cherry pick the bad ideas instead. I’d prefer if all people can learn to exist better together. *Fancy togetherness music*

    [Reply]

  2. Daynab Says:

    Daynab here from the forums (I moderate it along with the rest of the team.) Sorry for the trouble. For what it’s worth such posts are against forum policy (which aims to be inclusive), so they are always dealt with.

    Hoping that does not discourage you or anyone else from being apart of the community.

    [Reply]

    Tiffany Martin Reply:

    You need to know that I am grateful for how Gaslamp Games has handled this entire situation.

    Enjoy:
    http://cake-pie.com/women-gamers-gaslamp-games-forums-are-amazing/931/

    [Reply]

  3. Tomala Says:

    That’s excellent. :D

    [Reply]

    Tiffany Martin Reply:

    Thank you!

    [Reply]

  4. Megan Says:

    That might be the best comeback to the sandwich b.s. I have ever seen. hahahahaha!!

    [Reply]

    Tiffany Martin Reply:

    Haha, thanks! That’s what I was going for. (: It doesn’t do any good to shut up and “try to make peace” when the other person is treating you like a non person. Instead I prefer to imply that they might be a stupid fuck.

    [Reply]

  5. Annelise Says:

    Shit like this is why I stay away from forums for most of my interests and don’t play online multiplayer. It’s happened to me before, and to me, it’s just not worth the aggravation to put up with it.

    Congratulations on being a total badass, though. That is awesome.

    [Reply]

    Tiffany Martin Reply:

    Annelise, thanks, I felt like a badass!

    Check this out and see if this is a community you would be interested in:

    http://cake-pie.com/women-gamers-gaslamp-games-forums-are-amazing/931/

    It’s okay not to and I understand your feeling and it’s 100% justified.

    [Reply]

  6. » Blog Archive » Women Gamers: Gaslamp Games forums are amazing Says:

    [...] you also might have noticed, this took a foul turn. What happened is documented in the link there but essentially my first day on the forums I was told [...]

  7. Alex Says:

    I must confess ladies, I have been one of these guys in the past.

    I am certain that I have single highhandedly caused numerous women to stop playing games or at least hide their gender.

    I apologize.

    I now realize how immature and stupid my actions were.
    I don’t ask for your forgiveness, I only ask that you dust off that mic and come join the fun again.

    [Reply]

    Tiffany Martin Reply:

    Thanks for talking about that Alex, what a great thing to say. I think it’s terrific that your emphasis is on getting us back in the game, I know a lot of women won’t be able to until they can be sure it’s safe but some of us will. Knowing that a lot more men are going to treat us like a regular gamer makes it easier.

    [Reply]

  8. Darren Says:

    Never understood the Female hate in games, especially how 90% of guys when they get to choose gender in a game pick to play as a lass.

    Personally I find female gamers to be much more polite, fun and MUCH more skilled than the bazillion crap male gamers. Hell my mother and I regularly co-op in the LEGO games and Fable 3. She usually outpaces me!

    Now, back to trying to defeat Dremor for my first time… Only been playing it over a year :(

    [Reply]

    Tiffany Martin Reply:

    I hear guys who play as women (esp in 3rd person games) do it because female models have better butts to stare at for the duration of a game. Makes sense to me, especially if a guy is hetero.

    I’m glad you play with women, they are definitely more interested in playing games and having fun than some men are. In my experience a lot of guys get really into harrassing women instead playing games, no surprise, they’re usually not very good either.

    Co-op LEGO games are fun! Which ones did you like best?

    Keep checking back here, I plan to write up some guides for Dredmor, and without spoilers! Level up in real life and you can beat it one day, don’t give up!

    [Reply]

    Darren Reply:

    Heh, with how fun the game is I certainly don’t plan on giving up. Roguealikes are always going to be tough, made it to the 5th floor for the first time so it is all exciting… In the excitement I kind of died a little. Doh!

    I have always had a soft spot for the original Star Wars one (Episodes 1-3) but the second Indiana Jones game and LEGO Batman are very much up there!

    For a long time I played City of Heroes in a RP Supergroup which was most awesome, several of our members were female (playing female characters) and they were always brilliant fun to team up and Roleplay with. The game just gives so much room for the RP community. ‘s wonderful!

    I shall keep checking back -more for the general musing and the community you’ve built up- and look forward to the Dredmor guides!

    [Reply]

  9. Sarissofoi Says:

    I said “Hello! I’m a 30-year-old WOMAN, I play PC master-race games, console games, and board games. I enjoy strategy, roguelikes, RPGs, and adventure games (like Myst). I have a goal of defeating as many roguelikes as possible.”

    Just remove woman from this post. Your experience on forum will be much better.
    Why? Most of the guys just assume that you pointing woman on yourself just wanna:
    a)attention
    b)gain unfair advantage
    You also broke the first rule on Internet:
    THERE IS NO GIRL ON INTERNET.

    Just don’t tell the whole truth. Some details are better when hidden.
    Anyway good luck in gaming.

    [Reply]

    Tiffany Martin Reply:

    I’m not going to hide being a woman to accommodate assholes.

    If we work around these kinds of behaviors they don’t just go away or stop being problems. If I spoke more softly, more kindly, hid every fact about myself, or just stopped posting in forums they’d still be assholes. Plus who wants to do all that work just to coddle a few sensitive boys who don’t want to learn how to be actually funny? I want to play games, not tiptoe around kitchen jokers who can’t handle real life.

    As for your points
    a. I didn’t actually post pics of my tits, I only declared my age and ladygenetics. In fact, I said hi. Maybe you’re not familiar with this interaction but it’s traditionally drama free.

    b. I am sick of treating men like they’re special. I just want to be in one forum without men forcing their bad jokes upon me. Also, I don’t need an advantage of any kind, I’m really fucking good at games so what “advantage” could a bunch of guys on a forum give me? None. Instead, if anything men need the advantage: they need a society that lets them off for telling kitchen jokes when they’re not able to make better ones.

    The first rule of the internet is actually “1) Do not talk about rules 2-33″ (what you’re talking about is rule 37) but I guess you don’t know because you’re still on Usenet.

    I’m gonna wish you some luck too, and my advice to you is don’t be intimidated to try videogames. You don’t seem to understand much about what really makes a difference in gaming, you’re so focused on online forums I’m thinking you probably don’t actually play games, but you really should try them out, they’re pretty fun once you stop wasting all your time worrying about who’s a woman or a man.

    [Reply]

  10. The Sunday Papers | Rock, Paper, Shotgun Says:

    [...] or a proper achievement. And while many celebrated her rogue-like prowess, it took a turn for the sadder. It has a happy ending. “I want to say thank you to David Baumgart, to “Daynab” the forum [...]

  11. Laszlo Says:

    I don’t think clever bullshit and moderation will change these type’s mind. He probably thinks it was justified and he’s the one being persecuted because you’re “attention whoring”, meaning you mentioned you’re a woman at least once.

    [Reply]

    Tiffany Martin Reply:

    Based on all the interactions with him and all the stuff he’s been following me around on the internet trying to say I think you’re right. It’s sad because it hurts his chances in life to be behind on this stuff because it’s a signal to others about his low-status due to backward thinking.

    I do think other men who are really good people are reading about this and are taking notes (and not just here), which is great because they’ll have more fun out there and they’ll be more likely to play games with everyone.

    And yeah, making no effort to hide being female is a crime to some people, it lowers my status to subhuman and leaves me as fair game apparently. I say to hell with that, and you’ll notice by the pinkness of my website that not one fuck was given about hiding my XX-chromosome disease or “Non-Man-itis”.

    [Reply]

  12. themitos Says:

    I understand the anger for the comment, but I think the answer was a little uncalled for. Never answer childishly to a childish provocation. However, nice post, it’s always good to underline how women are perceived and treated in the videogame world; it might have seemed an innocent (though not funny) joke, but it has a culture which need to be fought behind.

    Anyway, I came here through a Dungeons of Dredmor query on google, so my comment should be mostly game related; if you’re really into roguelikes, I’d suggest you to try Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, if you haven’t already; it’s a pretty hard game with a steep learning curve (especially if you’re not into ascii graphic, though I believe there’s a more strictly graphical version around), but it has a lot of fun and satisfaction to be discovered.

    Have a nice day! And sorry if the way I write might seem strange, I’m not a native English speaker.

    [Reply]

    Tiffany Martin Reply:

    I had had enough of that crap and I think it’s good for people to see that they’re doing things wrong. If I had been more polite like I always am, I’d be ignored like I always am, and the guy would keep running around making these kinds of stupid jokes. I agree to many men it seems innocent, but they have no idea how often women hear crap like that and how it affects us. It’s totally unnecessary.

    You’re into rogues, eh? I plan to write a bunch more on the subject of rogues, including some guides.

    Of course I’ve played Crawl. You should try Nethack, it’s a PC roguelike and it’s a classic (you can play in ascii but they also have tilesets available), but beware it’s one of the hardest ones out there. It can be complicated to set up so if you read the guide and you can’t figure it out post here or email and I can help you out. It’s also very grind-y but there are some good jokes and references throughout. There are a couple of Nethack references in Dredmor, as well.

    I don’t mind weird English (yours is actually a lot better than many natives I’ve read) because I think it’s cool when people speak more than one language. Out of curiosity, what is your first language?

    [Reply]

    themitos Reply:

    I’m a couple of weeks late, but I’m really forgetful.

    I’ll have to try Nethack sooner or later; I understand it’s a must of the genre, though hearing about the grinding has always kept me at a safe distance. It should be easy enough to set up for what I can see on the web; surely easier than Dredmor, which keeps segfaulting on me all the time. It’s mostly unplayable on my linux machine, unfortunately. Really a pity, I’ve heard great things about it. Trying to make it work fine was what brought me here while I was googling, actually.

    Anyway, if you plan to write on rogues more, you’ll have another follower; I like your style, though the topics aren’t really for my tastes.

    That said, I’m Italian; not a lot of us playing roguelikes around xD

    [Reply]

  13. Harold Says:

    I don’t see how your response was any more mature than his. I realise that he snapped first, but you could hardly claim to have risen above.

    Anyway, congratulations. That game is brutal.

    I wish gaming could just be about fun again, rather than having all these other issues attached.

    [Reply]

    Tiffany Martin Reply:

    I wish games could be about fun too, but I can’t say “again” because unlike your experience men have been going out of their way to give me a hard time just for being a female, and they’ve been doing that since always. I’d really games them to be about FUN without all the garbage, just like men get to have. And yeah, men trash talk but it’s inclusive: he’s your buddy and he’s on your level. The stuff guys say to women is stuff that implies you shouldn’t even be there, or you don’t know what you’re doing. I hate having to pretend I’m invisible just to avoid it. I hate having to deal with it. I hate having to treat men like they’re special, or better than me, or more knowledgeable about games (they’re usually NOT).

    You say you don’t see how my response was any more mature than his? The key point here might be in remembering that what he said to me wasn’t a “Response”. He shot first, so to speak, and while I was minding my own business introducing myself in the INTRODUCTIONS thread. He literally came from nowhere with no provocation and forced his stupid joke on everyone there. I can not be expected to endure that every time I play a game or post on a forum, and certainly not in silence. They say that you should ignore a bully, or tell on them, but having been a nerd for my whole life I know the end to that story. This time I said no more, and I told him off.

    I take a line of inspiration from Captain Malcolm Reynolds (A character in the science fiction TV series Firefly):

    “If someone tries to kill you, you kill them right back”

    [Reply]

    Harold Reply:

    Fair enough, I can’t relate to your experience personally though. The only place where I have really witnessed this sort of treatment has been in forums or boards, where I’ve seen insults thrown at everyone and anyone, for any reason, plenty non-inclusively. How some ignorant people online could ruin gaming for you in such a massive way, I find very hard to believe, but again, if that’s been your experience then that’s fair enough

    The bottom line, as far as I stand, is that the guy was being a prick, but if his post is a bannable offense, then yours definitely is too.

    Even when the guy tried to apologise, you had to pick that apart.

    You have been given special treatment, and celebrated it. This is not progressive.

    [Reply]

    Tiffany Martin Reply:

    I was given “special” treatment? Bull. We don’t think of it this way but we’re actually giving jerky people special treatment instead. And we’re so used to acting this way that when we stop spoiling these guys, it ends up looking like their victims are being favored.

    We make all kinds of excuses for jerky dudes to keep up their garbage. “He’s just joking, can’t you take a joke?” “He didn’t mean it” “He’s sorry” I’m a pretty nice person, and I can’t imagine a scenario where I would do anything like going to a stranger and telling them to get in the kitchen. I can’t imagine any possible way I would do it. Would you? I don’t know any nice people who could imagine themselves doing that either so I think we need to take the blinders off: these are not “good guys” who made a mistake. Good guys don’t attack people like that. They’re manipulating our good will and we’re letting them do it because we want to believe they’re good like us.

    I take exception to “the guy tried to apologize”, as he most certainly did not. He tried to make himself look better because I made him look bad, and that made him feel bad, it made him worry that others would think he was “a bad guy”. Self-protection isn’t an apology. It’s selfish and doesn’t give me back anything. If you can’t believe a bad guy exists in the world you should know he wrote a ton of gross things I never posted. What would be the point? About 10-20% of guys online are dickbag jerks and I saw no point in organizing a mob against this one.

    Oh so you’re saying that standing up for myself is an equal crime to a person giving themselves permission to harass a stranger without provocation? Your sense of justice is missing a beat here. He would have ignored a polite request or targeted me further. This wasn’t my first rodeo, and I’ve asked nicely in these situations before. What did it earn me to “be sweet” to a person who has that much self-entitlement? More harassment. Every single time. This time I was done with giving guys like this a free pass, special treatment, and spoiling them with my patience. They’re not entitled to be able to walk around being jerks and expecting other people to smile and be kind to them. If people act like jerks they should expect other people not to like it. Humans, 101.

    Based on results, it works far to stand up for myself than it does to just put my head down or be nice to my abusers. You must not know what it’s like, maybe you’ve never been bullied or abused yourself, but I’ll tell you your wimpy tactics and polite ways would earn you nothing but more crap, and it’d be very likely that more people, smelling blood in the water, would join in and attack you too.

    Harold Reply:

    My point is that you can’t just employ your own rules within the confines of a forum, where there are rules. You used language that was just as outside the rules as his. The guy was absolutley served justice, he was a ballbag but you were out of line too.

    “We don’t think of it this way but we’re actually giving jerky people special treatment”
    The guy was banned, and everyone thinks he is an asshole. I don’t even know what else to say in response to that point.

    I have been hassled by many people, I grew up in a really shitty place in Northern Ireland, and I have had to be tough, I don’t need a life lesson. I don’t see what that has to do with this, but you challenged me so there it is.

    As for him making things up, that’s messed up, I did not realise that. I came back to this after a friend brought it up and mentioned that the guy apologised, sorry about that.

    “Oh so you’re saying that standing up for myself is an equal crime”
    I can stand up for yourself without getting down in the gutter with the person who is insulting me. Apparently you can’t even imagine that. Him breaking the rules is equal to you breaking the rules.

    You were absolutely given special treatment.

    Harold Reply:

    *can stand up for myself without

  14. Jon Says:

    Hello! Came here from RockPaperShotgun.

    There’s two activities I love – motor racing and computer games and both of them have such fucked up relationships to women – it’s infuriating to watch. Good job for getting a well-aimed kick in at them, Tiffany.

    One question, though – you made a nerd gamer/mummy’s boy link which, given the gender based bullshit that was thrown at you, was witty and effective. But, stepping back for a second, do you think that the gamer/mummy’s boy stereotype, one that is only aimed at men, might be a barrier to women’s inclusion in gaming? That is, the stereotype you reference is “gamers are socially awkward BOYS who stay at home with their MOTHERS” – not girls. Is the weapon you used part of the arsenal of gender stereotyping that exists around video gaming and, by keeping gaming as a negative stereotype attached to men, not only keeping the area off-putting to females but also stereotyping male gamers (like myself) too?

    Like I said under the circumstances I entirely applaud your comment, but it’s a good topic for discussion. I’d be interested to hear your thoughts.

    Keep up the good gaming,

    -Jon

    [Reply]

  15. jimjam Says:

    Hey Cakepie,
    A good internet rule is don’t expect ANYTHING from others.
    I haven’t since 1992 and I have only been proven wrong once.

    So it follows that anybody posting statements about how they beat the game on hard mode(a boast) is not guaranteed to always get praise.
    In fact some less successful players might find it annoying enough to make snide comments.

    I shan’t.

    Well done for beating a computer game I have tried and utterly gave up on.

    [Reply]

    Tiffany Martin Reply:

    When you say “Don’t expect anything on the internet” are you saying you should default to zero expectations? Seems pretty cynical unless you spend all day commenting on youtube or 4chan.

    Also did you think I went there expecting praise or did you insert your own thoughts in there? I don’t recall ever expressing that idea myself. I clearly stated why I went to the forums (to meet other Dredmor fans, and see if what I did was actually special or if thousands of other people had already done it)

    Thanks for congrats, and you shouldn’t give up on Dredmor, roguelikes are designed to be nearly impossible to beat and this one is not easy. Just don’t have any expectations about beating it and try it again. It’s such a funny game.

    [Reply]

  16. rdm Says:

    Q: “Why do so many men want to be turned into sandwiches?”

    A: “Because they’re full of baloney!”

    meanwhile: congratulations!

    [Reply]

  17. » Blog Archive » New Reddit Dredmor Challenge (8/24-8/31) Says:

    [...] good at DoD when I murdered Lord Dredmor in an absurdly difficult way, and after doing so there were some events to follow that would lead to me finding a lot of great people in the game community (and having a whole new [...]

  18. Weekly Roundup: Yes, there are dick-free places on the internet « Cyber Femmes Says:

    [...] sans tragedy. After participating on the Dungeons of Dreadmoor forums for less than 24 hours, cakepie encountered the “make me a sanwhich” comment. If you’re a woman on the internet/gaming community, you know what I mean. The [...]

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Posted by Cake-Pie
Dated: 1st August 2012
Filled Under: Games